Hepatitis-B Vaccine in Newborns

[stancel]

Cite your sources, please.

Reported statistics by the World Health Organization:

Vaccine-derived immunity is thought to be short-lived. Between 30-50 percent of vaccinated individuals may lose their antibodies within 7 years.

Up to 60 percent of persons who initially respond will lose detectable antibodies within 12 years. So that means that these vaccines will provide little to no protection to the real risks of acquiring Hepatitis B: promiscuous sexual behavior and IV drug abuse.

 

[stancel]

I never wanted this thread to become a "bad parent, good parent" debate. I would assume that everybody on here who has kids is a loving parent who does everything possible to protect and care for their children. I also think everybody here is smart enough to know what justifies the label "bad parent", and vaccinating your child is NOT one of those things. I just wanted to have a real discussion about a very important subject. Turns out it is just as controversial as it is important though.

As for me, this is one vaccination I have chosen not to give my newborn baby. It wasn't that long ago that only certain people who had high exposure to the virus got the Hep-B vaccination, such as nurses. I actually got the vaccination myself after Katrina because I helped with the cleanup and was exposed to raw sewage. I know the government started a "war on Hep-B" years back, but the problem was getting people who were in the high risk groups (intravenous drug users and homosexual males) to take the vaccination. Most of them refused, so like so many "Wars" we find ourselves in, it didn't work out as well as they had hoped. Their answer was to turn their attention to newborn babies due to their accessibility.

Merck has spent millions lobbying congress to pass laws in regards to the Hep-B vaccination. It started in the late 90's in Ohio when Merck successfully lobbied Congressman Drake to pass laws requiring the vaccination for children starting kindergarten. That trend continued, and now Merck makes about 1 Billion dollars a year in profits off the Hep-B vaccination. Now call me crazy, but anytime that much lobbying money and profits are involved, you HAVE to consider that maybe your child's well being isn't the first priority for those pushing these vaccines.

 

[D-DAY]

I never wanted this thread to become a "bad parent, good parent" debate. I would assume that everybody on here who has kids is a loving parent who does everything possible to protect and care for their children. I also think everybody here is smart enough to know what justifies the label "bad parent", and vaccinating your child is NOT one of those things. I just wanted to have a real discussion about a very important subject. Turns out it is just as controversial as it is important though.

As for me, this is one vaccination I have chosen not to give my newborn baby. It wasn't that long ago that only certain people who had high exposure to the virus got the Hep-B vaccination, such as nurses. I actually got the vaccination myself after Katrina because I helped with the cleanup and was exposed to raw sewage. I know the government started a "war on Hep-B" years back, but the problem was getting people who were in the high risk groups (intravenous drug users and homosexual males) to take the vaccination. Most of them refused, so like so many "Wars" we find ourselves in, it didn't work out as well as they had hoped. Their answer was to turn their attention to newborn babies due to their accessibility.

Merck has spent millions lobbying congress to pass laws in regards to the Hep-B vaccination. It started in the late 90's in Ohio when Merck successfully lobbied Congressman Drake to pass laws requiring the vaccination for children starting kindergarten. That trend continued, and now Merck makes about 1 Billion dollars a year in profits off the Hep-B vaccination. Now call me crazy, but anytime that much lobbying money and profits are involved, you HAVE to consider that maybe your child's well being isn't the first priority for those pushing these vaccines.

You don't want to give it to her, fine no prob on the Hep B. To re-iterate, please make sure she at least gets the childhood disease vaccines.

Also, would you feel better if the government/FDA made, distributed, and administered the vaccines? That way it would be done without the menacing drug companies with their evil profit?

 

[stancel]

It really doesn't matter who makes the vaccines. The bottom line, when it comes to my family, I am not going to simply go with the program because it is what I am supposed to do. Maybe it is just my over protectiveness, or my general distrust in other people, but I can't turn the safety of my family over to strangers. I know there are police out there who's job it is to protect law abiding citizens like myself, but that doesn't stop me from carrying a concealed weapon. I put the responsibility of my families protection in my own hands. I appreciate all the input, and I really feel everybody benefits from discussions like this one, but I am going to put the topic to bed. I am always open to new information that contradicts my opinions, and I may change my mind later.

Now if you will excuse me, I just got a email from Bud's Gun Shop saying they have a Kahr PM45 in stock. I need to go serve my wife breakfast in bed before bringing up my wanting a new $700 gun.

 

[gocoastal]

WHY do you have to sign forms relieving them of liability in order to take the hep B vaccine?? That tells me plain as day they know something bad could happen.

I heard one parent ask this, "If all the other kids in the school are vaccinated, then why are you worried about mine if they can't catch it?" Think he has a point.

I cut out a kid's ingrown toenail last month and he had to sign a form relieving my of liability as well. I didn't expect anything bad to happen. In fact, most people probably dig out their ingrown toenails on their own at home. Any procedure that penetrates skin carries a risk of infection, so essentially anything beyond a physical exam requires a consent form.

In regards to what is called "herd immunity" - immunizing most of the population functionally protects the rest of the population - sure, it works, but:
1) Unless your kid has a defect to the immune system or immunosuppressed from an organ transplant or has a medical contraindication to getting vaccinated, you're relying on the rest of the kids in the class to be placed at this "risk" you've perceived, in order to protect your own child without putting her at risk. I'll suspend blatantly stating what kind of person I think that makes you.
2) You assume that everyone else in the class is vaccinated, but what if all the parents started succumbing to the autism paranoia? Herd immunity fails. We would see polio in the US again.

 

[gocoastal]

vaccines contain mercury.the end.

So does tuna fish.

 

[kcinnick]

Anybody see the real problem?

The government should not dictate which vaccines you decide as a parent to give or not give your children, especially one heavily lobbied by drug companies.

 

[charliepapa]

Anybody see the real problem?

The government should not dictate which vaccines you decide as a parent to give or not give your children, especially one heavily lobbied by drug companies.

do they? or is it more that if a child wants to take part in public education where other taxpayers' children are gathered, then they must be vaccinated?

serious question: is it actually illegal to not vaccinate your kids? if they're home-schooled for instance; do they still have to be given the shots by law?

 

[D-DAY]

Anybody see the real problem?

The government should not dictate which vaccines you decide as a parent to give or not give your children, especially one heavily lobbied by drug companies.

Many of these childhood diseases kill. If enough people do not vaccinate their children then these diseases rear their ugly head. It happens time and time again on small and large scale. gocostal pretty much nailed it.


stancel, are you saying that you are not immunizing your child at all???

 

[D-DAY]

It really doesn't matter who makes the vaccines. The bottom line, when it comes to my family, I am not going to simply go with the program because it is what I am supposed to do. Maybe it is just my over protectiveness, or my general distrust in other people, but I can't turn the safety of my family over to strangers. I know there are police out there who's job it is to protect law abiding citizens like myself, but that doesn't stop me from carrying a concealed weapon. I put the responsibility of my families protection in my own hands. I appreciate all the input, and I really feel everybody benefits from discussions like this one, but I am going to put the topic to bed. I am always open to new information that contradicts my opinions, and I may change my mind later.

Now if you will excuse me, I just got a email from Bud's Gun Shop saying they have a Kahr PM45 in stock. I need to go serve my wife breakfast in bed before bringing up my wanting a new $700 gun.

Your thought process is flawed.

You want to protect your children by allowing them to be unprotected??? It's not like you personally can stop them from contracting the majority of these childhood diseases.

 

[deafdave3]

Me and my wife are deaf because our parents thought it was best for our health to not be given the meningitis vaccine. I would much, much rather have died from meningitis vaccine than be tortured by the bullies throughout school because I wore hearing aids.

 

[Cat]

Straight up, the benefits of the meningitis vaccine FAR outweighs the risks. I'm not suggesting that deafness isn't a big deal (it certainly is), but I'd be tickled pink purple and blue if that's all my child escaped with. To be honest Dave, you're the only one I "know" who contracted meningitis and lived.

The Strep B that mothers are innoculated against at birth? A good friend of ours lost their seven day old son from a false negative. She wasn't given the antibiotic during labor. A few years before that a boy I knew died from quick onset meningitis. Happy one day, and gone the next night.

I know I'm hesitant with the "new" vaccinations. Two especially that I recall coming on to the market that I didn't receive was the chicken pox vac and this new Gardasil vac. Our daughter did receive the Gardasil because both grandmothers (on my side), her great aunt (my side again) and my sister all had forms of female reproductive cancer. My sister and I shared the doc. I point blank asked if this gardasil could have prevented my sister's (without asking her to break the confidentiality agreements there). She is positive it was the type of cancer that this new vaccine prevents. Again, I know the risks, I wasn't *thrilled* with them, but the chances of my daughter contracting cancer? Again, the benefits outweigh the risks here.

 

[deafdave3]

Straight up, the benefits of the meningitis vaccine FAR outweighs the risks. I'm not suggesting that deafness isn't a "real" handicap, but I'd be tickled pink purple and blue if that's all my child escaped with. To be honest Dave, you're the only one I "know" who contracted meningitis and lived.

The Strep B that mothers are innoculated against at birth? A good friend of ours lost their seven day old son from a false negative. She wasn't given the antibiotic during labor. A few years before that a boy I knew died from quick onset meningitis. Happy one day, and gone the next night.

Wrong meningitis, my friend. Most people who contract viral meningitis do live. Most who contract bacterial meningitis do not. There is no vaccine for bacterial meningitis. In fact, there's no vaccine for anything bacterial.

 

[deafdave3]

Straight up, the benefits of the meningitis vaccine FAR outweighs the risks. I'm not suggesting that deafness isn't a big deal (it certainly is), but I'd be tickled pink purple and blue if that's all my child escaped with. To be honest Dave, you're the only one I "know" who contracted meningitis and lived.

The Strep B that mothers are innoculated against at birth? A good friend of ours lost their seven day old son from a false negative. She wasn't given the antibiotic during labor. A few years before that a boy I knew died from quick onset meningitis. Happy one day, and gone the next night.

I know I'm hesitant with the "new" vaccinations. Two especially that I recall coming on to the market that I didn't receive was the chicken pox vac and this new Gardasil vac. Our daughter did receive the Gardasil because her grandmother, her great aunt and my sister all had forms of female reproductive cancer. My sister and I shared the doc. I point blank asked if this gardasil could have prevented my sister's (without asking her to break the confidentiality agreements there). She is positive it was the type of cancer that this new vaccine prevents. Again, I know the risks, I wasn't *thrilled* with them, but the chances of my daughter contracting cancer? Again, the benefits outweigh the risks here.

ANY quick onset of meningitis is rarely survivable.

 

[Cat]

ANY quick onset of meningitis is rarely survivable.

Very true and to be honest that's been my only experience with meningitis. The baby went home and stayed home two days. The rest of that week was in NICU.

Either way, I still think it's one of those that it doesn't matter if there are risks associated with it. It helps more than it hurts. I tested positive for Strep B twice. The third time they didn't even test me. I was a chronic carrier and was treated regardless.

 

[deafdave3]

Straight up, the benefits of the meningitis vaccine FAR outweighs the risks. I'm not suggesting that deafness isn't a big deal (it certainly is), but I'd be tickled pink purple and blue if that's all my child escaped with. To be honest Dave, you're the only one I "know" who contracted meningitis and lived.

The Strep B that mothers are innoculated against at birth? A good friend of ours lost their seven day old son from a false negative. She wasn't given the antibiotic during labor. A few years before that a boy I knew died from quick onset meningitis. Happy one day, and gone the next night.

I know I'm hesitant with the "new" vaccinations. Two especially that I recall coming on to the market that I didn't receive was the chicken pox vac and this new Gardasil vac. Our daughter did receive the Gardasil because both grandmothers (on my side), her great aunt (my side again) and my sister all had forms of female reproductive cancer. My sister and I shared the doc. I point blank asked if this gardasil could have prevented my sister's (without asking her to break the confidentiality agreements there). She is positive it was the type of cancer that this new vaccine prevents. Again, I know the risks, I wasn't *thrilled* with them, but the chances of my daughter contracting cancer? Again, the benefits outweigh the risks here.

I, too, am against Gardasil. Gardasil protects against Human Papillomavirus (HPV); IT DOES NOT GUARANTEE PROTECTION AGAINST CERVICAL CANCER! Yes, HPV can cause cervical cancer, but its not the only thing that can.

 

[deafdave3]

Very true and to be honest that's been my only experience with meningitis. The baby went home and stayed home two days. The rest of that week was in NICU.

Either way, I still think it's one of those that it doesn't matter if there are risks associated with it. It helps more than it hurts. I tested positive for Strep B twice. The third time they didn't even test me. I was a chronic carrier and was treated regardless.

No disrespect intended, but Strep is a bacteria, not a virus. Therefore, a vaccine can do nothing.

 

[Cat]

No disrespect intended, but Strep is a bacteria, not a virus. Therefore, a vaccine can do nothing.

True and they don't. But six weeks before birth they test the mother for Strep B. If she's positive, regardless if she's showing symptoms or not, the OB orders an antibiotic to be supplied through an IV during labor. Our first daughter, it took longer than four hours so she was fine.

Our second daughter came lickity split, two hours. Since I wasn't able to get the full round of antibiotic, they IV'd her for forty-eight hours.

When we induced with our son, because I gave birth so quickly before, they began the antibiotic before the piticin. He just barely made it with a half hour or so to spare so he was fine too.

Fine as in I didn't have an itty bitty newborn in my hands with a huge honking IV covering half their arm.

Sorry if I was confusing.

 

[Tulse Luper]

In fact, there's no vaccine for anything bacterial.

Yes there is. BCG and DTaP are two.

 

[deafdave3]

True and they don't. But six weeks before birth they test the mother for Strep B. If she's positive, regardless if she's showing symptoms or not, the OB orders an antibiotic to be supplied through an IV during labor. Our first daughter, it took longer than four hours so she was fine.

Our second daughter came lickity split, two hours. Since I wasn't able to get the full round of antibiotic, they IV'd her for forty-eight hours.

When we induced with our son, because I gave birth so quickly before, they began the antibiotic before the piticin. He just barely made it with a half hour or so to spare so he was fine too.


Sorry if I was confusing.

Oh! Now I understand. Fascinating. So, your kids flew out, too, eh? My three were the same way with my first wife. By the time our last (third) was born, there was very little time for epidural, vaginal massages, and all that other crap. Nurse came in, checked Mom, and left. Five minutes later I went to the nurse and said, "she's crowning." Nurse said, "No, she's not. I just checked her. Come, follow me. I'll show you what 'crowning' is." She walked into the delivery room, looked between my wife's legs (pardon the vulgarity) and immediately went wide-eyed and ran into the hallway and screamed, "I NEED A DOCTOR NOW!!!" After all calmed down, she came to me and apologized and said, "you must have a medical background, do you?" I said, sarcastically, "no, but I did stay at the Holiday Inn Express last night." I never spoke to her again.

I hate it when doctors and nurses assume they know more than me because they have a uniform and I don't.