La OCer Arrested for filming cops and Open Carry, Legal Fund set up to help.

[SVT]

First, my immediate thought when I read this description was that if I were the trooper I would have questioned this guy as well. It's a sad fact that ambushes against LEO are more and more frequent. You are working a hot scene and someone accross the street is taping you and, upon further investigation, wearing a gun? Yeah, you are going to get questioned. It's a safety issue.

I agree with a lot of what you had to say. I think the only thing you wrote that concerns me is what I quoted above.

Now perhaps it's my own naivete, but why would a man obeying the law concern you and become an officer safety issue? I mean, I can sort of see your point that maybe it's possible this guy is going to ambush the police, but at what point is the line crossed by citizen or leo regarding the Rights of the Citizen and the Safety of a Leo? Shouldn't a person's 2ndA & 4thA Rights be secure even in this situation (this of course assumes the OP's account is accurate)?

 

[Emperor]

I understand, I just find the statement that these guys are necessary for keeping LEO in check? Again, that is their chain of command and Internal Affairs department that keeps these guys in check.

I honestly was not fishing for any form of thanks, respect or anything, just was merely stating that no, these guys are not necessary to keep LEO in line. They are painting us responsible gun owners as uneducated hillbilly clowns and I will speak up against it anytime one of them goes in way over their heads. Legal fees, nursing program, hey Jack (not you Jack, I'm quoting Si) you have to choose which is more important. If you're doing some vigilante ****, you better have some Bruce Wayne finances to back the legal hassle of what your actions bring upon. Don't go asking for a handout, that's in poor taste. Once again, thed, I know we do not know each other, but I have no ill will towards you, just the comment about these guys being necessary to keep cops in line.

Have a good one kiddos.

I am concerned when I see this as a common theme on here. Am I to believe that because I choose to associate myself with firearms, hunting, concealing, etc.; that I must carry myself above and beyond the social scrutiny of ANY other legal activity in this country?

Being a responsible gun owner is no different than me being a responsible business owner, licensed driver, responsible parent, and so on. It's no different a standard than say a journalist, a priest, a doctor, a fireman, or any other category of responsible citizen. Look at the way politicians are viewed? They are still there in power, and the are still scumbags!

Don't let anyone frame us into how they think gun ownership should be represented. I reject the notion that just because I choose to associate myself with the 2nd Amendment and that Right involves firearms that I am somehow expected to act more responsible than any one else in this country.

The tactic of isolating a group of citizens and perpetuating a false standard for that group is exactly what freedom haters want.

I follow the law! I adhere to safe practices with my firearms! That's it! I do not have to act any other way just because I like guns!

 

[Emperor]

However, this story smells worse than Feinstein's chair.

 

[doc ace]

I am concerned when I see this as a common theme on here. Am I to believe that because I choose to associate myself with firearms, hunting, concealing, etc.; that I must carry myself above and beyond the social scrutiny of ANY other legal activity in this country?

Being a responsible gun owner is no different than me being a responsible business owner, licensed driver, responsible parent, and so on. It's no different a standard than say a journalist, a priest, a doctor, a fireman, or any other category of responsible citizen. Look at the way politicians are viewed? They are still there in power, and the are still scumbags!

Don't let anyone frame us into how they think gun ownership should be represented. I reject the notion that just because I choose to associate myself with the 2nd Amendment and that Right involves firearms that I am somehow expected to act more responsible than any one else in this country.

The tactic of isolating a group of citizens and perpetuating a false standard for that group is exactly what freedom haters want.

I follow the law! I adhere to safe practices with my firearms! That's it! I do not have to act any other way just because I like guns!

I'm referring to the fact of bait and filming, in hopes of confrontation. Not carrying on in a "normal everyday manner"

Believe me if/when I have open carried you better got damn believe I wasn't walking around with a film crew and bumping shoulders/chasing every squad car I saw. It's called carrying yourself in a professional manner! I know you already know this Emp-Daddy.

Like ie said I have no issues of law abiding citizens open carrying. I don't. I hate the guys playing Barney Fife with no badge, looking for a guy doing his job and getting in his face and screaming what his rights are.

 

[Emperor]

I'm referring to the fact of bait and filming, in hopes of confrontation. Not carrying on in a "normal everyday manner"

Believe me if/when I have open carried you better got damn believe I wasn't walking around with a film crew and bumping shoulders/chasing every squad car I saw. It's called carrying yourself in a professional manner! I know you already know this Emp-Daddy.

It's not just that. I see this on here all the time. There are morons in EVERY activity in America! We as gun people can't be held accountable for the ones that abuse the Right to Bear Arms; just as good cops can't be held accountable for bad ones.

 

[meplatgroup]

I agree with a lot of what you had to say. I think the only thing you wrote that concerns me is what I quoted above.

Now perhaps it's my own naivete, but why would a man obeying the law concern you and become an officer safety issue? I mean, I can sort of see your point that maybe it's possible this guy is going to ambush the police, but at what point is the line crossed by citizen or leo regarding the Rights of the Citizen and the Safety of a Leo? Shouldn't a person's 2ndA & 4thA Rights be secure even in this situation (this of course assumes the OP's account is accurate)?

That's for a court to decide. I think a lot of it depends upon the circumstances and if there is reasonable suspicion. However, when you do things to provoke a reaction (as this young man's previous videos demonstrates he does) do not be surprised when you get what you seek.

 

[SVT]

That's for a court to decide. I think a lot of it depends upon the circumstances and if there is reasonable suspicion. However, when you do things to provoke a reaction (as this young man's previous videos demonstrates he does) do not be surprised when you get what you seek.

ok, I was hoping to hear your perspective on my question, but I completely understand/agree w your last sentence above.

 

[meplatgroup]

ok, I was hoping to hear your perspective on my question, but I completely understand/agree w your last sentence above.

It depends is the answer.

If I was still a cop and I saw a guy get out of his truck with a four wheeler in the back at a gas station, dressed in camo and he had a gun on his side, I wouldn't say a word. If I saw the same guy with a gun on his side pacing up and down nervously in the alley next to a cash checking business, he's going to get stopped. I've stopped guys before just on a hunch. Something wasn't right, they didn't belong in their surroundings---kind of like those pictures you used to circle when you were a kid. Granted, you have to be able to articulate what that reasonable suspicion is, but I've arrested wanted people and people who had just committed felonies like this. I've also had polite chats with law abiding citizens who then went on their way.

Our 2nd and 4th amendment rights are not absolute. Otherwise we would be a lawless nation and could not survive.

 

[Bayoupiper]

It's not just that. I see this on here all the time. There are morons in EVERY activity in America! We as gun people can't be held accountable for the ones that abuse the Right to Bear Arms; just as good cops can't be held accountable for bad ones.

But isn't this exactly what we are doing?

Even on here?

All cops get painted with the broad brush by certain forum members.

Same with open carry advocates.

We can qualify our statements all we want but those threads still end in train wrecks.





.

 

[Vermiform]

It's not just that. I see this on here all the time. There are morons in EVERY activity in America! We as gun people can't be held accountable for the ones that abuse the Right to Bear Arms; just as good cops can't be held accountable for bad ones.

So you have no problem with me open carrying and throwing my cigarette butts in the street then?

 

[Emperor]

But isn't this exactly what we are doing?

Even on here?

All cops get painted with the broad brush by certain forum members.

Same with open carry advocates.

We can qualify our statements all we want but those threads still end in train wrecks.
.

Yes! And that's why we are setting ourselves up for failure. We (the citenzry collectively), allow ourselves in this country to be labeled and classified by whom? Corrupt media outlets and politicians!?!

I think it is very clear which members on here are antagonists just for the hell of it. Likewise, it is clear (to me anyway), those on here that ask provocative questions that are germane to the conversation/debate.

Many comprehend with bias and therefore misjudge the debaters intent or character.

Are we not humans? Or are we not DEVO?

Let's see who gets that reference?

 

[Emperor]

So you have no problem with me open carrying and throwing my cigarette butts in the street then?

Your utter disregard for clean streets, civility, dignity, and self-respect shall have no bearing on you as an OC'er in my eyes!

 

[SVT]

It depends is the answer.

If I was still a cop and I saw a guy get out of his truck with a four wheeler in the back at a gas station, dressed in camo and he had a gun on his side, I wouldn't say a word. If I saw the same guy with a gun on his side pacing up and down nervously in the alley next to a cash checking business, he's going to get stopped. I've stopped guys before just on a hunch. Something wasn't right, they didn't belong in their surroundings---kind of like those pictures you used to circle when you were a kid. Granted, you have to be able to articulate what that reasonable suspicion is, but I've arrested wanted people and people who had just committed felonies like this. I've also had polite chats with law abiding citizens who then went on their way.

Our 2nd and 4th amendment rights are not absolute. Otherwise we would be a lawless nation and could not survive.

Again i would say I agree with a lot of what you are saying. And I agree our Rights are not absolute (since they are subject to RS/PC of a crime), but I do think we should view them as absolute as long as RS/PC of a crime is not in the picture. I think viewing our Rights as Absolute (With the caveat for crime etc.) is the best way to preserve our Rights.

 

[Jack]

I am concerned when I see this as a common theme on here. Am I to believe that because I choose to associate myself with firearms, hunting, concealing, etc.; that I must carry myself above and beyond the social scrutiny of ANY other legal activity in this country?

Being a responsible gun owner is no different than me being a responsible business owner, licensed driver, responsible parent, and so on. It's no different a standard than say a journalist, a priest, a doctor, a fireman, or any other category of responsible citizen. Look at the way politicians are viewed? They are still there in power, and the are still scumbags!

Don't let anyone frame us into how they think gun ownership should be represented. I reject the notion that just because I choose to associate myself with the 2nd Amendment and that Right involves firearms that I am somehow expected to act more responsible than any one else in this country.

The tactic of isolating a group of citizens and perpetuating a false standard for that group is exactly what freedom haters want.

I follow the law! I adhere to safe practices with my firearms! That's it! I do not have to act any other way just because I like guns!

I think that him masking his attention whoring under "fighting for freedoms" is part of the issue. He is attempting to make himself a face of 2a rights, which is obviously not good for 2a rights.

 

[MOTOR51]

When an officer is on a traffic stop or in contact with someone he is suppose to be aware of his surroundings. If he is dealing with a suspect why would someone want him to have the added responsibility of now watching you and the suspect because he has no idea what you are doing there. Add in the fact that he is obviously armed. Unlike a lot of other jobs LEO are killed and injured just because of their job,why make it harder so you can get on YouTube

MOTOR 51

 

[Emperor]

I think that him masking his attention whoring under "fighting for freedoms" is part of the issue. He is attempting to make himself a face of 2a rights, which is obviously not good for 2a rights.

But that's him being a self important douche! He doesn't represent me, you, or any other gun owner. So F him! Doc Ace said he personifies gun owners as hillbillies. I disagree with that rationale. He's another dick in the world. My point is, if the media points their self righteous fingers at him and says, "See, they are all dumbasses!" I say F them too!

 

[Mayonnaise]

All cops get painted with the broad brush by certain forum members.

Same with open carry advocates.

We can qualify our statements all we want but those threads still end in train wrecks.

You seem to be a pretty reasonable dude, so bear with me for a moment.

I am not a cop hater, but I also don't automatically respect the badge just because its pinned on your shirt. I am just as concerned about what you're about to do, as you are about me. The distrust is mutual, and I do my best to ease any tension. I think that's fair, right? With that said, I am polite, compliant, blah blah blah, yes sir, no sir. Whatever. I'm not an ******* about it.

I have has a few friends become police officers. Key word there is "had." Becoming a cop changes you. All of a sudden your job is to care about what other people are doing, even if what they are doing is of no danger to someone else. Case in point, seat belt tickets. Why do y'all care anyway? I digress. Before jumping though hoops, spending however many weeks in the academy, and putting up with an FTO, you would have never given a **** if joe average was standing on the corner filming while openly carrying his Taurus. What changed?

As average guy, I don't see why the cop cared, at all, what this man was doing. That fact that he cares so much is concerning to me. What prompted him to even approach this man? He was not doing anything disruptive. Maybe I just don't get it, or I am missing something. I fail to see the point other than the officer posturing in a show of authority.

I've watched my former friends turn into this type of person. They went from fun loving happy people to divorced/separated and angry. It seems to be a common trait, at least amongst their particular crowd. Carrying guns in bars, getting hammered ass drunk and then DRIVING. It's really bizarre. Due to a few heated discussions I no longer felt safe interacting with them.

Perhaps you're painting with the same wide brush that you're condemning? Seems like LEO's are quick to jump to the defense of their brothers in blue. Not all that different than normal people jumping to the defense of their fellow citizens. This forum got out the pitch forks and torches when Anty, or whatever his name was, shot the guy who butt stroked him with an AK. Flip that coin over and threads were locked and warnings passed out when that LEO member allegedly accidentally shot and killed someone in a bar parking lot. Yeah sure, he was on duty and someone approached him from behind, yada yada yada and Anty was buying weed. Apples and oranges, right?

I see it like this. If a cop is involved, pump your brakes and wait until all the evidence is presented. If Eddy down the street is involved, pitch forks come out and we will sort it out later. So anytime, we as a populace get to point at a cop and scream foul, we get that same broad brush painting us as cop bashers.

Sorry to ramble on. I'm sure most here are excellent officers, and y'all are probably right about a few members being cop bashers, but I believe there is such thing as healthy distrust.

 

[Dishonored]

LEO are killed and injured just because of their job,why make it harder so you can get on YouTube

MOTOR 51

Because it's their RIGHT! Don't you read anything they post!
Gah!

 

[oleheat]

It'll all be fine.


I just walked outside. No rioting of any kind.

 

[Jack]

But that's him being a self important douche! He doesn't represent me, you, or any other gun owner. So F him! Doc Ace said he personifies gun owners as hillbillies. I disagree with that rationale. He's another dick in the world. My point is, if the media points their self righteous fingers at him and says, "See, they are all dumbasses!" I say F them too!

You're right on all counts, but we aren't concerned about how it looks to guys like you and I, the people who think. We are concerned about how it looks when it airs on WWLTV that "A 2A rights advocate was arrested for ____" then they roll footage of him being a tool.