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  • OneStory

    Warrior in God's Army
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    Update...

    In response to my email inquiry (to Archbishop Aymond - Bishop of the Arch Diocese of New Orleans) seeking any and all information regarding the LCCB's recent decision to prevent legal concealed carry in Louisiana Catholic Churches, a member of his staff called me and directed me to the USCCB's website - usccb.org.

    I searched the site and found very little and very old information. What I did find is posted here and in the next post:

    http://www.usccb.org/sdwp/national/criminal/handguns.shtml

    Handgun Violence: A Threat to Life


    Committee on Social Development
    and World Peace
    United States Catholic Conference

    September 11, 1975



    The Problem

    There are currently 40 million handguns in the United States., More than 21/2 million new handguns will be manufactured and sold this year. In most of our cities and rural areas, purchasing a weapon is as easy as buying a camera.

    In 1973, the last year for which complete figures were available, there were 28,000 firearms deaths.2 In 1975, it is estimated that nearly 30,000 will die from gunshot wounds. Added to this are over 100,000 people wounded by guns each year, the victims of 160,000 armed robberies and 100,000 assaults with guns.3

    Gun accidents are now the fifth most common accidental cause of death according to the National Safety Council. In 1973, 2,700 people died in gun related accidents.

    Some have suggested that homeowners and citizens should arm themselves to protect their families from murder, assault or robbery. The sad fact is that a handgun purchased for protection is often used in a moment of rage or fear against a relative or acquaintance. A recent study in the Cleveland area indicates guns purchased for protection resulted in the deaths of six times as many family members, friends and neighbors as intruders or assailants.4 The 1973 FBI Uniform Crime Report indicates that of all murders almost 25% involved one family member killing another and an additional 40% occur among people who are acquainted. Most homicides are not the result of criminal design but rather they are the outcome of quarrels and arguments among spouses, friends and acquaintances. In these situations, it is the ready availability of handguns that often leads to tragic and deadly results.

    Handguns play a disproportionate role in gun violence. They account for 53% of all murders, yet make up only 20% of all firearms. The problem is growing. The annual sales of handguns have quadrupled in the last ten years.



    A National Firearms Policy

    The growing reality and extent of violent crime is of great concern to the Committee on Social Development and World Peace and to all Americans. It threatens more and more of our citizens and communities. The cost of this violence in terms of human life and suffering is enormous. We speak out of pastoral concern as persons called to pro claim the Gospel of Jesus, who "came that they may have life and have it to the full." (John 10:10). We are deeply committed to upholding the value of human life and opposing those forces which threaten it.

    One of these factors is the easy availability of handguns in our society. Because it is so easily concealed, the handgun is often the weapon of crime. Because it is so readily available, it is often the weapon of passion and suicide.

    This is clearly a national problem. No state or locality is immune from the rising tide of violence. Individual state and local action can only provide a partial solution. We must have a coherent national firearms policy responsive to the overall public interest and respectful of the rights and privileges of all Americans. The unlimited freedom to possess and use handguns must give way to the rights of all people to safety and protection against those who misuse these weapons.

    We believe that effective action must be taken to reverse this rising tide of violence. For this reason, we call for effective and courageous action to control handguns, leading to their eventual elimination from our society. Of course, reasonable exceptions ought to be made for the police, military, security guards, and pistol clubs where guns would be kept on the premises under secure conditions.

    We recognize that this may be a long process before truly comprehensive control is realized. We therefore endorse the following steps to regulate the use and sale of handguns:

    A several day cooling off period. This delay between the time of the sale and possession of the handgun by the purchaser should result in fewer crimes of passion.

    A ban on "Saturday Night Specials." These weapons are cheap, poorly made pistols often used in street crime.

    Registration of handguns. This measure could provide an improved system of tracing weapons by law enforcement officials. Registration will tell us how many guns there are and who owns them.

    Licensing of handgun owners. Hand. guns should not be available to juveniles, convicted felons, the mentally ill and persons with a history of drug or alcohol abuse.

    More effective controls and better enforcement of existing laws regulating the manufacture, importation and sale of handguns.
    These individual steps will not completely eliminate the abuse of handguns. We believe that only prohibiting the importation, manufacture, sale, possession and use of hand. guns, with the exceptions we have already cited, will provide a comprehensive response to handgun violence.


    Conclusion

    We realize this is a controversial issue and that some people of good faith will find themselves opposed to these measures. We acknowledge that controlling possession of handguns will not eliminate gun violence, but we believe it is an indispensable element for any serious or rational approach to the problem.

    We support the legitimate and proper use of rifles and shotguns for hunting and recreational purposes. We do not wish to unduly burden hunters and sportsmen. On the contrary, we wish to involve them in a joint effort to eliminate the criminal and deadly misuse of handguns.

    We are, of course, concerned about the rights of the individual, as these rights are grounded in the Constitution and in the universal design of our Creator. We are convinced that our position is entirely in accord with the rights guaranteed by our Constitution, and particularly with the Second Amendment to the Constitution as these rights have been clarified by the United States Supreme Court. We affirm the traditional principle that individual rights to private property are limited by the universal demands of social order and human safety as well as the common good.

    ____________________________________________

    Estimate of the Division of Alcohol, Firearms and Tobacco, U. S. Department of the Treasury. Handgun refers to a firearm held and fired by the hand, usually a pistol or revolver. It does not include rifles, shotguns, long guns or other shoulder arms.

    There were 13,070 murders involving firearms according to Crime In The United States 1973, the FBI Uniform Crime Report (September, 1974). In addition, there were 2,700 deaths involving fire. arms accidents according to Accident Facts, National Safety Council. And, approximately 13,317 people committed suicides with firearms according to the National Center for Health Statistics.

    Crime In The United States 1973, FBI Uniform Crime Report. September, 1974.

    A 1968-1972 study of the Medical School of Case Western University. Of the 131 persons killed, 114 were family members or acquaintances killed because a gun was present in the home and 17 were robbers or other persons engaged in criminal activity.
     

    OneStory

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    This is the only other info. I was able to find on the site:

    http://www.usccb.org/sdwp/national/criminal/gunsample.shtml

    The U.S. Bishops and Guns


    A Sampling of Statements

    Handgun Violence: A Threat to Life

    From: New Slavery, New Freedom: A Pastoral Message on Substance Abuse, USCC, 1990.

    Furthermore, the widespread use of handguns and automatic weapons in connection with drug commerce reinforces our repeated "call for effective and courageous action to control handguns, leading to their eventual elimination from our society." (Quoting the 1975 Handgun Statement) p.10.


    From: Confronting A Culture Of Violence: A Catholic Framework for Action, 1995.

    Violence in our culture is fed by multiple forces -- the disintegration of family life, media influences, growing substance abuse, the availability of so many weapons, and the rise of gangs and increasing youth violence. No one response can address these diverse sources. Traditional liberal or conservative approaches cannot effectively confront them. We have to address simultaneously declining family life and the increasing availability of deadly weapons, the lure of gangs and the slavery of addiction, the absence of real opportunity, budget cuts adversely affecting the poor, and the loss of moral values. (p. 5)

    Advocacy: Parish and diocesan representatives and other groups can meet with media representatives to bring pressure against excessive violence and pornography. Legislative networks can advocate for public policies that prevent and combat crime, restrict dangerous weapons, promote safe communities, eliminate the death penalty, and help lift people out of the "hellish cycle of poverty" and confront the violence of abortion. (p. 19)

    ... intensify our advocacy for national policies that address violence, including strengthening families, violence in the media, the availability of drugs and dangerous weapons, the violence of abortion and the use of the death penalty, and other economic and social policies that attack the root causes of violence. (p. 20)


    From: Community and Crime: A Statement of the Committee on Social Development and World Peace, 1978.

    Par. 61: In 1976, crime statistics indicated that 64 percent of all murders were committed with a firearm and 49 percent were committed with handguns. Twenty-four percent of all aggravated assaults and 43 percent of all robberies were committed with firearms. Eighty-five percent of the police officers killed were killed with firearms.30 Other studies have shown that most homicides are committed against friends and relatives, not strangers. Since such a significant number of violent offenses are committed with handguns and within families, we believe that handguns need to be effectively controlled and eventually eliminated from our society. We acknowledge that controlling the possession of handguns will not eliminate gun violence, but we believe it is an indispensable element of any serious or rational approach to the problem.31

    Par 79: (3) Handgun control. We support the development of a coherent national handgun control policy that includes: a several day cooling-off period between the sale and possession; a ban on "Saturday Night Specials"; the registration of handguns; the licensing of handgun owners; and more effective controls regulating the manufacture, sale and importation of handguns. We recognize, however, that these individual steps will not completely eliminate the abuse of handguns. We believe that only prohibition of the importation, manufacture, sale, possession and use of handguns (with reasonable exceptions made for the police military, security guards and pistol clubs where guns would be kept on the premises under secure conditions) will provide a comprehensive response to handgun violence.33

    See Also: Handgun Violence: A Threat To Life, Statement on Gun Control. Committee on Social Development and World Peace, United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, September 11, 1975.

    For Further Information: Andy Rivas, Policy Advisor: Food, Agriculture and Non-violence issues, United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, 202-541-3190, fax: 202-541-3339, email: arivas@usccb.org
     

    OneStory

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    The information cited by the USCCB (US Conference of Catholic Bishops) is DECADES old and some of it has been proven to be exaggerated, mis-leading and outright lies.


    I realize that many of you are as aggravated by this issue as I am and many of you more so...

    But, IMO, name calling and baseless accusations won't win this battle.

    These people need to hear from lots of us - not just a few - in a rational and educated manner.

    Please join the fight but don't make the battle harder than it has to be.
     

    OneStory

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    It didn't seem to help the hippies, which are now in congress. :wtc:
    There's only two cures for stupid - Education or life biting you in the ass, and some are incurable. Let's hope these guys aren't.

    CloudStrife, How is the battlefront from your position?
     

    CloudStrife

    Why so serious?
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    CloudStrife, How is the battlefront from your position?

    I haven't written them anything yet. I WILL do it Sunday. Writing nice, coherent, flowing letters or papers isn't my forte, so I have to think about it for a while and then force myself to write.

    I did send a link to the recent decision and a link to the fb page I created to my choir members, but no one's joined.
     

    OneStory

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    I haven't written them anything yet. I WILL do it Sunday. Writing nice, coherent, flowing letters or papers isn't my forte, so I have to think about it for a while and then force myself to write.

    I did send a link to the recent decision and a link to the fb page I created to my choir members, but no one's joined.

    So few of us can join together and fight the good fight...even here on BS where we supposedly come together as a "community" united by a common purpose.

    "Louisiana's Premier Shooting Community"...pipe-dream...?
     

    charlie12

    Not a Fed.
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    If the church told me I could carry I wouldn't.
    It's a dumbass law and I wouldn't asked them if I could carry and I wouldn't take that ******** class.

    It was a stupid law and should have never been passed, they should have just removed it from our prohibited places, they should be treated just like Walmart if they don't want me and my gun put a sign on the door, simple.
     

    Yrdawg

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    If nobody knows then nobody knows.....a secret stops with 1 more

    Will we ever get it " rite " I dunno but we are this far, I didn't think it would happen

    The Liberals have used progressiveism against us for years, now we do it
     

    david210

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    ASk any of the 200+ CHP holder with my certificates..."we have been down that road." LOL.

    Seriously, we discuss that kind of stuff in my blow hard classes a lot.


    "THERE ARE NO DEFINITES, FINALITIES, ABOSLUTES, BLACK AND WHITES, AND CLEAR CUT ANSWERS WHEN YOU START YOU QUESTION WITH --"legally speaking"

    Too many here have yet to accept that as a reality. the law is written by man, interpreted by other men, who argue man against man, and then 12 other men decide. It is a pitre dish of opportunity for chaos and injustice.

    "i ain't saying it is right, I am just saying it is reality"

    Well said.
     

    Cat

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    - those guards are trained pro's and not a bunch of random wing nuts with some plastic permit in their pocket showing they took a course, often given by another wing nut, and then took 8 more hours of training, who now know enough to be armed and dangerous, but only to innocent.

    If I was the Pope, I would pick Swiss Guards over the random gun toter any day.

    Well, I wouldn't call this website a bunch of random wing nuts (most of these guys are far from it), but considering how many anti religious zealots that consider assassinating the Pope, it's in his best interest to have armed guards. I don't see any conflict or contradiction between the Swiss Guard and this decree.

    Sure it's senseless. I agree with the general sentiment. A house of God isn't invincible to someone bent on destruction but the way I see it, it's their place. And their faith. Just like Wal-Mart is well within their rights to ask you to leave if you CC, a church government has the right to say they put their faith in God to protect them inside His house and weapons are not welcomed. Private property and all that jazz. And their private property trumps your personal rights IMO, as much as you or I or anyone else may disagree with it.

    And... concealed means concealed.
     
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    spanky

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    Well, I wouldn't call this website a bunch of random wing nuts (most of these guys are far from it), but considering how many anti religious zealots that consider assassinating the Pope, it's in his best interest to have armed guards. I don't see any conflict or contradiction between the Swiss Guard and this decree.

    Sure it's senseless. I agree with the general sentiment. A house of God isn't invincible to someone bent on destruction but the way I see it, it's their place. And their faith. Just like Wal-Mart is well within their rights to ask you to leave if you CC, a church government has the right to say they put their faith in God to protect them inside His house and weapons are not welcomed. Private property and all that jazz. And their private property trumps your personal rights IMO, as much as you or I or anyone else may disagree with it.

    And... concealed means concealed.
    :cool:
     

    CloudStrife

    Why so serious?
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    It's certainly within their rights to make such a decision. No argument there. But like every other "firearm-free" zones, it's just dumb.

    And yes, concealed is concealed. I... I mean... I would never carry a gun in a church.
     

    my-rifle

    I make my own guns.
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    I don't understand the whole imbroglio. If you disagree with a church's decision to prohibit weapons in their churches, and it's THAT important to you, then go to another church. One of the immense fallacies that Protestants make regarding Catholicism is they believe it's a democracy. As though they can "vote" to influence their religious leaders. Catholicism doesn't work that way, and if you think it should, then you're a Protestant. Nothing wrong with that, but don't try to make the Catholic church into a Protestant church. Many others have tried, but few have succeeded.
     
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    spanky

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    I don't understand the whole imbroglio. If you disagree with a church's decision to prohibit weapons in their churches, and it's THAT important to you, then go to another church.

    Or maybe realize that you don't need a church to worship your beliefs.
     
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