What is the best plastic pistol out right now and why?

[dos gris]

That's because the gun argument is over. HK has triumphed, so there will be no further discussion necessary. Agreed?

Your logic works LSP, as long as you don't have more than one or two people who might be willing to dispatch your affable carcass for some reason. That being the case, you might want to look into toting a much, much, much higher capacity sidearm!

The ball bullet phenomenon seems to prove our thesis. There isn't a whole lot of predictability involved once the player leaves the motionless paper target realm. Therefore more capacity to account for seemingly random reactions is warranted.

It's just too bad that we don't have a 15-17 round 45 ACP that can be carried realistically. I like big bullets too!

 

[dos gris]

...But I'm betting that one solid COM hit with my .45 will equal several lesser caliber hits, with resultant quicker rounds on a secondary or tertiary "target"...
.

This is where we diverge. I think the 40 in HST isn't significantly different to the 45 in HST. Relative to the size, weight and layout of the human body, it isn't a "Big Old Bullet" at all. Relative to each other however, observers can look at the relative sizes of the bullets themselves and they can compare the numbers and get the wrong idea that somehow an expanded diameter of .88 is significant compared to a .95 for example.

Given the dynamics (an overused and pretentious term) of the situation, one can never count on one or two rounds to do the job, so you gotta shoot each person more, all while doing something to keep from getting shot yourself, meaning your hits are less likely to be COM, meaning you run out more quickly, etc, etc.

The best solution is to not have enemies.

 

[Hardballing]

It's okay fellas to say you like the Glock. Really it is.

Kind of a perverse pleasure in that it is so boringly reliable, and so inexpensive. Don't feel shamed that you didn't pay too much. You could always gold plate the slide.

Kind of like, "In a World of Compromise...Some Prefer To Spend Money on Bullets and Training."

Hey, hey, just stirring the pot a tad more...

 

[RyanW]

True enough.

Me, have enemies? Perish the thought...

.

As long as you keep me shooting straight, you've got a friend. A friend with a nice HK collection lol

 

[Mjolnir]

I had the opportunity to go to SHOT this past year, but blew it.

That's the type of source I'd trust, but with always a little reservation at the back of my mind. Nonetheless, it does make sense-- and indeed, I've heard a lot of serious people speak highly of the HK. Thought provoking indeed.

I'm a bit surprised at that maintenance schedule, TBH. Granted, you can feel the spring "loosen up" after a while-- I'd say 5k live rounds through the Glock sounds about right. But it isn't like the thing shuts down, and I'd imagine the HK at 15k is much the same. I wonder why they chose those figures? And at the same time, I always thought the G17 was oversprung as something of a correction for this wear-and-tear, so that it didn't have to be replaced as you started to get less and less tension. Before hand loads and tuning, mine ran absolutely beautifully with a 15#, WELL past the 5k mark. But perhaps function in truly adverse conditions is hindered...

I'm down with that bottom line for sure! Provided I can get the proper trigger time on the P30, of course. I've only shot the LEM maybe 200 times, and it's a different beast than that simple striker fired. Indeed, we could do much worse-- but I feel safe in saying that neither of us ever will.

I've been casually testing the Firearms World for employment and now that HK USA is in a place I could live they are now a target - IFF there is any engineering done there (No, there isn't...). So I've befriended many in the Industry.

Another manufacturer to watch closely is FN. Though I don't like some of their design features they are like HK when it comes to testing their products. They are also HUGE so I'd put their pistols up there with Glock and HK, too.

Here is one example: the HK USP45 was tested with .45 Super, supposedly. I'd like to see the test results and conclusions and the Mk23 was designed to accept 20k +P rounds and the HK45 supposedly for 10k +P. I think a Glock would handle that, too. If it didn't I'd be a bit surprised.

A very close friend of mine used to work at HK International Training Division and he turned me on to HK pistols (though he carries a Browning Hi Power). He's now a FAM Firearms Instructor. Though he was not involvced in testing and probably never had FULL access to the data there are bits that he would have access to and he ranks HK pistols as the most durable, followed by Glock. He and I (and you, too) recognize that if the HK is 20% more durable it's more than 20% more expensive... Omitting the latest issue (I find myself apologizing for the current issues it seems) with Glock their weak link is the trigger return spring, locking block and take down spring and plate. The locking block is more an issue with the G23 though I'm not aware of a large percentage of failures or the failure rate. A NY1 trigger return spring cures the spring failure (but a 4.5 connector will have to be added). I've never heard or seen a failed NY1. So for a few bucks the trigger "concerns" are eradicated. Using a shot peened, cryogenically treated chrome silicon spring and a metal (instead of plastic) guide rod design and I then don't see a difference between the two. The Glock seems "inherently" faster in use until crazy skill is obtained by the shooter then there's no difference btwn SA, DA or LEM in terms of speed.

I like the Trijicon HD sights, Grip Force Adapter and the aforementioned trigger and connector springs for my 17 and I love it. Yes, I've had to try different extrators and now the White Sound HRED is about to be tried to simulate very positive Sig-like and HK-like ejection. I "feel" you and everyone else's passion for the Glock and I'm hoping Glock's new recoil spring ass'y and ejector solves their issues. If not I'll stay with what I know works (HK). It's a shame one has to fiddle with a Glock to make it run. I used to jokingly state "If you can't get a Glock to run or a Remington 700 to shoot 1" groups you're cursed!" Well, I cannot say that any more. Hopefully, I can say so again. It's comforting to me to know that some things simply are and I believe that Glock should be one of those things that simply work and do so at reasonable prices. THAT is what makes Glock the best in the world. The Austrians who implemented the unneccesary changes should be hung.

 

[goteron]

CS springs are no better than music wire, just like monster gold plated audio cables are no better than a lamp cord. Marketing hype.

 

[RisingRebel]

My choice is hands down the FNP-9 or 40. It is basically a sig with a much lower price tag. I bought one 7 or so years ago and just bought another a few weeks ago for my wife. I've gone through a mess of guns and nothing compares as are as I'm concerned.
As for a real comparison, the glock 17 weighs a little more, has an angle I don't like and an accuracy I don't like compared. The glock does have a longer 1/4 or so barrel and sight radius but I am more accurate and faster on the follow up shots on my FNP then a glock. It has a wide handle and controls like like the sig.
For whatever reason, they price just dropped. I bought one from a WA dealer shipped for 409 with 2, 16 round mags and 3, 10 round 2 weeks ago.
I'd suggest looking at one before buying something else.

 

[RisingRebel]

PS - if you can make it to Sherburne tomorrow, sunday, PM me and I'll meet up with you. I'll bring both of mine and let you try them out since no one around here seems to stock them.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

I am not an Engineer nor do I tinker but I have participated in two torture test where Glock Guide Rods melted and dripped out of the gun and the weapon continued to function fine. The Plastic Guide Rod is not a weak link. I think most people who have plastic guide rod phobia in Glocks are former 1911 guys. I will admit when I first saw it I was concerned.

 

[Mjolnir]

I am not an Engineer nor do I tinker but I have participated in two torture test where Glock Guide Rods melted and dripped out of the gun and the weapon continued to function fine. The Plastic Guide Rod is not a weak link. I think most people who have plastic guide rod phobia in Glocks are former 1911 guys. I will admit when I first saw it I was concerned.

I've witnessed two stock guide rods fail during classes. One locked up the pistol. Most Glockphiles don't believe that the guide rod can fail. EVERYTHING fails.

 

[RyanW]

Added to the family, have you?

I saw Bill the other day at HQ. Sounds like his current gig is working out well...

.

Yeah I added a few, had some come in some go out, just like pretty much all the kool-aid drinkers. I still am a bit disappointed that I ended up buying and LWRC AR instead of the MR556, buuuut, I don't regret it all, and I hate being able to admit that lol

Next time you see bill ask him the new shotgun is. The one I had in the classifieds here lol

I even bought a steel framed gun too, but it only holds 8 rounds.

 

[Sin-ster]

I watched an aftermarket guide rod (improperly assembled, cheaply machined into 3 pieces) "fall" out of the end of a G22 after the rear portion worked itself completely loose. Even with the relatively large obstruction floating around in the gun, it kept ticking along for the rest of the mag, and would have continued further.

Now, taking the thing apart to make repairs was a challenge...

My G17 has a two-piece stainless. Actually, it's got two-- one with a 15# and one with a 13#. But I still don't get squeamish over the plastic OEMs. I've heard a few stories about them being a problem, but only rarely from someone with first hand experience that I'd trust. (And I accept Mjolinir's witness account as factual.) I grant the trigger spring, though. The after market extra powered are known to be weaker, and I've snapped enough to prove it. While certainly sturdier, the OEM's don't give me a warm, fuzzy feeling.

And that's the one problem I run into when it comes to training/practice. I want to be familiar with the gun, and I want to make the sure the gun I trust with my life is reliable. But every shot fired produces wear, and corrective maintenance means you're putting untested parts back into the gun! Where does it all end?!

 

[Abh3vol.firemen]

ruger p-95 (stirs the pot)

 

[goteron]

show some innovation!

Yes please Glock... They will quickly become kodak if they don't.

 

[Bayoupiper]

I've said this before.

Glocks are the Ford Escort of the gun world.

There are hundreds of thousands of them out there and everybody can drive one.




.

 

[JR1572]

Ok, this thread has got me thinking. The more I look at a P30, I like it. Does anyone close to the NOLA metro area have one with the LEM that I can grope and see if it's for me before I go out and spend a fortune?

JR1572

 

[Tulse Luper]

Ok, this thread has got me thinking. The more I look at a P30, I like it. Does anyone close to the NOLA metro area have one with the LEM that I can grope and see if it's for me before I go out and spend a fortune?

JR1572

Sure.

PM me.

 

[JR1572]

Sure.

PM me.

PM sent...

Thanks,

JR1572

 

[rcm192]

Ok, this thread has got me thinking. The more I look at a P30, I like it. Does anyone close to the NOLA metro area have one with the LEM that I can grope and see if it's for me before I go out and spend a fortune?

JR1572

I have one, my parents live in NOLA. When im back in town i could let you check it out and or shoot it.

 

[JR1572]

Thanks guys. I just checked one out a little while ago.

I may be converting to the P30 LEM soon...

JR1572