entering gun free zone to save lives

[charliepapa]

What if a woman intervenes? What body part measures her resolve?

IDK, sorry if I left you out.

 

[CloudStrife]

IDK, sorry if I left you out.

ha ha ha... no. Just a random thought.

 

[Guate_shooter]

Ive always thought that anybody who CC's should be given some type of a badge with your license number on it and name, NO it will not give you any power to arrest BG, and you wont be able to do traffic stops or any kind of crazy ideas like that, I will only be good to identify yourself to an LEO who is aproaching a situation like the one that it is being discused at this time, Just something that you can visually display so they know you probably not the BG or at least not in theory, eventhough procedure will be to disarm you and still put you on the ground and maybe even handcuff you until they know what is exactly going on. It's a similar idea to the LEO who is performing a traffic stop and looses control of the situation and you as an armed trained civilian jump in and help OR traffic stop with 5 ocupants inside the vehicle and backup is no wheres around the area LEO has his door open light shining at the suspects vehicle gun is drawn and he cannot procede until more units aproach in this case intimidation factor of another "armed" person could make the diference from this LEO succesfully being able to secure the situation or loosing control of it in a split second.

There are many times when as a trained armed citizen you would like to jump out of the vehicle and help not to be a hero but to help somebody who puts his life on the line every day to protect us, but how can you aproach this cases without making it any harder on the LEO is a hard question that I dont know how to answer.

 

[4sooth]

Tulse luper--Ayoob talks about the competing harms doctrine in some of his gunfight analysis articles.

You have violated the school zone statute but in doing so saved a human life--the latter "outweighs" the former under the doctrine so--no harm done. However not all courts will recognize this principle--so in some jurisdictions (strongly liberal) the local system may try to nullify or prevent the use of this defense. Ayoob has mentioned this concept in his work more than once--look for past articles.

 

[OneStory]

I don't see where addressing CC is necessary for this discussion.

I'm not trying to step on toes...I think it only complicates the issue unnecessarily.

If you are driving by in your car, CC isn't necessary.
If you live nearby, CC isn't necessary.
If you are hunting nearby, CC isn't necessary.

It may be an advantage to keep the gun concealed until you reach the active shooter but concealing the weapon up to that point is the least of your legal worries IMO.

If you get into a gunfight and someone wants to prosecute you for CC'ing up until the point when the gun was noticed, they are going to have to prove you had it concealed up until it was seen. How are they going to prove what they didn't see?

 

[OneStory]

Ive always thought that anybody who CC's should be given some type of a badge with your license number on it and name, NO it will not give you any power to arrest BG, and you wont be able to do traffic stops or any kind of crazy ideas like that, I will only be good to identify yourself to an LEO who is aproaching a situation like the one that it is being discused at this time, Just something that you can visually display so they know you probably not the BG or at least not in theory, eventhough procedure will be to disarm you and still put you on the ground and maybe even handcuff you until they know what is exactly going on. It's a similar idea to the LEO who is performing a traffic stop and looses control of the situation and you as an armed trained civilian jump in and help OR traffic stop with 5 ocupants inside the vehicle and backup is no wheres around the area LEO has his door open light shining at the suspects vehicle gun is drawn and he cannot procede until more units aproach in this case intimidation factor of another "armed" person could make the diference from this LEO succesfully being able to secure the situation or loosing control of it in a split second.

There are many times when as a trained armed citizen you would like to jump out of the vehicle and help not to be a hero but to help somebody who puts his life on the line every day to protect us, but how can you aproach this cases without making it any harder on the LEO is a hard question that I dont know how to answer.

The CC permit can be faked... A badge can be faked... etc...

No matter what you have or what you say, a WISE LEO will treat everyone on the scene that he doesn't know personally, especially armed ones, as threats untill he absolutely is convinced otherwise. The unwise LEO's won't be around very long.

I know it is a pain in the "brass" but that is reality. Think about it, you would do the same and so would I.

"No disrespect to anyone here in this active shooter event but I'm covering my brass!" says the wise LEO.

 

[Guate_shooter]

The CC permit can be faked... A badge can be faked... etc...

No matter what you have or what you say, a WISE LEO will treat everyone on the scene that he doesn't know personally, especially armed ones, as threats untill he absolutely is convinced otherwise. The unwise LEO's won't be around very long.

I know it is a pain in the "brass" but that is reality. Think about it, you would do the same and so would I.

"No disrespect to anyone here in this active shooter event but I'm covering my brass!" says the wise LEO.

I agree but what if that armed citizen could have saved your brass, then I believe its a diferent story and a diferent tune on the song, no disrespect either from a wise Armed Citizen

 

[CloudStrife]

I wise LEO should assess the situation before opening fire.

 

[LACamper]

Ya'll are thinking colleges... How about this instead.... You're dropping off (or worse, picking up) your 6 yr old at the grammar school, pulled up in the bus turnaround when you hear shots and screaming from inside. CCW isn't an issue b/c you are still in your vehicle. The minute you step out you're breaking the law though. Do you bring your gun to investigate?
If the teachers are watching 'Blackhawk Down' (unlikely, but it could happen) on the big screen (or playing COD4 on the Prometheus Boards) without the kids you're screwed... you just broke the law and scared a bunch of teachers half to death. You'll be spending the night with Bubba until your lawyer can get you out on bond.
If it is a real event, you'll be a hero, no charges will be filed but you'll be sued in civil court by the perps families as well as half a dozen kids liberal families for exposing them to a gun illegally...

 

[KnightWolf09]

WHO CARES? I think it could / should almost be considered negligent that someone who was armed and had the proper training would become aware of such a situation and NOT intervene.

.

Well, for now at least, there is no duty for the average joe to protect others.

 

[CloudStrife]

Well, for now at least, there is no duty for the average joe to protect others.

No duty under the law. Moral duty? Yes.

 

[KnightWolf09]

I don't see where addressing CC is necessary for this discussion.

Not specifically addressing CC, but possession, concealed or otherwise, of a firearm in a firearm free zone.

 

[KnightWolf09]

No duty under the law. Moral duty? Yes.

For most anyway.

 

[dzelenka]

I am willing to bet that every person on this board with a CHP have violated a 1000' firearm free zone. You cannot believe how much territory is covered by them.

Soon, you will be asked to write your legislators, please do so.

 

[Bearco]

I am willing to bet that every person on this board with a CHP have violated a 1000' firearm free zone. You cannot believe how much territory is covered by them.

Soon, you will be asked to write your legislators, please do so.

+1 on that. I play around with a map one day. Wow is all I can say. I'm sure some even break the law when crossing the street to check their mailbox for mail.

 

[Tulse Luper]

I am willing to bet that every person on this board with a CHP have violated a 1000' firearm free zone. You cannot believe how much territory is covered by them.

Soon, you will be asked to write your legislators, please do so.

That's the aspect that aggravates me the most. We'd need some sort of helmet mounted GPS heads-up-display to even begin to conform. Isn't there some bit of legal nomenclature that describes a law that is unreasonably difficult to abide by?

Second is how arbitrary the number 1000 is. Nice round number? Plenty of zeros? Good year for Gewurztraminers?

Third, this law/rule specifically does nothing but feed the audience that's lulled by security theater.

 

[KnightWolf09]

Second is how arbitrary the number 1000 is. Nice round number? Plenty of zeros? Good year for Gewurztraminers?
.

What's average effective handgun range? Maybe we can get it reduced to that.

 

[Gus McCrae]

I am willing to bet that every person on this board with a CHP have violated a 1000' firearm free zone. You cannot believe how much territory is covered by them.

Soon, you will be asked to write your legislators, please do so.

Looking forward to it.

 

[Tulse Luper]

What's average effective handgun range?

I don't think someone intent on murdering kids gives a damn.

 

[Gus McCrae]

What's average effective handgun range? Maybe we can get it reduced to that.

Any distance is just wrong. CCP holders should be able to walk down the street while carrying. This law does not help anyone.