M-16 VS AK-47.....Again

[SGT_Kramer]

You know I bet the spear has actually killed more people than every other weapon in history. Maybe even combined.

Oh no the woman has killed more men then any other weapon in history combined!! DOn't turn your back to her!!

 

[Gus McCrae]

Lulz. This thread is a cluster....

 

[JWG223]

While I somewhat agree with you I think you might be a little hard on the kid. (No offense ment by that remark)

My anticdotal experences arn't the hand of god or anything... I make no claim to them being anything but what I experenced.

We ALL rely on 3rd hand info every day.

That said:
Across the room to across the Euphraties river.

Angle was me standing in the back of a Hummer shooting at a car behind me, to me standing in a 7 ton shooting at a car behind me.

As to colt etc.
Issue is Colt and FN.

They fail.

Found a lot more people saying what you say about glass and M855.

 

[Hitman]

Lulz. This thread is a cluster....

With tons of cheerleaders

 

[Leonidas]

 

[JWG223]

You're probably right, but it's not as much him as it is his "type" that frustrates me. He's just the current representative.

And I wasn't putting you on the spot as THE expert, again you're just the current representative for the other side of the coin, ie guys with real world experience.

I learned more in a few minutes of Louis Awerbuck telling lunch time stories than I could reading every scientific fact ever published regarding weapons, ballistics, what works and what don't. That was when I stopped putting so much stock in "lab results". Both types of information are beneficial. I just can't stand the Internet-Know-It-Alls anymore. And it goes beyond this thread with this fella.

There are 2 sides to every coin. Some guys have BTDT and don't know crap. I met plenty of them on the range with TAPCO'ed out AR's trying to absolute co-witness a red-dot in a no-name mount and unable to even touch paper at 25 yards, and other similar exploits.

Then there are some guys who have BTDT who have a lot of knowledge about a lot of things.


I never claimed, and never will, to be an "expert" on anything. I just bring a lot of data with me to the table because I prefer facts/data/etc.

Would you have preferred I relate personal stories of how the M855 round vs. 7.62x39 round do against car doors and plate steel?

You yourself claim that "both types of information are beneficial".

You will find that my information has in no-way conflicted with what your buddy Nomad,2nd has said. We just said it differently and you happen to have a problem with me. Oh well. Go back and read both. We agree on every single thing except that he feels 7.62x39 hits harder...which could (seems it is) likely be his experience with M855. I on the other hand am discussing the next generation of ammunition for the M4 platform that is being phased in, as well as the TAP and MK262 stuff.

 

[Nomad.2nd]

You know I bet the spear has actually killed more people than every other weapon in history. Maybe even combined.

That win goes the the FIRST weapon used in Murder... the club.

 

[Nomad.2nd]

I think I'll be on the AK side next time this comes up. That way I can stir up a different group of people. I like my AK just not ergo's and I like to know I can hit at 300+ meters without a second thought.

Stop trying to run an AK like an AR and NEW WORLDS will open to you!

 

[SpeedRacer]

Stop trying to run an AK like an AR and NEW WORLDS will open to you!

Are you suggesting he should click the link in my sig and sign up for the upcoming Gomez AK class?

 

[jayd]

I learned more TRAINING w/ Louis Awerbuck .....than I could reading .......
That was when I stopped putting so much stock in "lab results". .

Fixed

I think Awerbuck said something to the effect of
"In the end result there isn't a rats ass between major calibers, only the ability to hit what your aiming at
when the feces has hit the proverbial occilator" or something to that effect but much more eloquently


Which begs the question, Are you an elitest info quoter, with all the fact and figures to seemingly back you up?
Or a knuckle dragger, a real shooter who hits what he's aiming at, Pretty much when he wants, under pressure, or in a hurry or on the move?

If not step away from the keyboard and get out and shoot.....

alot












and save the internet circle jerking for the Interwebz commandos

 

[LongGoneDays]

Edited due to e-stalking by Vanilla Gorilla

 

[JWG223]

Stop trying to run an AK like an AR and NEW WORLDS will open to you!

Swapping mags is in no way going to be as fast/efficient with an AK as with an AR.

The safety on the AK cannot be operated nearly as effectively as that on the AR.

That is my main complaint about ergo's. Of course, depending on how you run your gun, that may not matter to you personally.

 

[SpeedRacer]

Which begs the question, Are you an elitest info quoter, with all the fact and figures to seemingly back you up?
Or a knuckle dragger, a real shooter who hits what he's aiming at, Pretty much when he wants, under pressure, or in a hurry or on the move?

Can a get a "none of the above" option?

 

[JWG223]

Can a get a "none of the above" option?

I thought he was talking about you, but if about me, yes, I can hit what I am aiming at, and a fair amount of the time at that, although much better with an AR than an AK since the AR is what I have had the most experience with.

 

[jayd]

Can a get a "none of the above" option?

Why you want to bring politics into this?

Ok, the third option is "fuggetaboutit" Let's go get a beer"

 

[SGT_Kramer]

as long as you can get into the E Club I'm good for a beer!

 

[Nomad.2nd]

Swapping mags is in no way going to be as fast/efficient with an AK as with an AR.

The safety on the AK cannot be operated nearly as effectively as that on the AR.

That is my main complaint about ergo's. Of course, depending on how you run your gun, that may not matter to you personally.

I've told this story before, but your new:

Last year I got conned into taking a training class with "Redback one" with a buddy (Horrible class)
Turned out, it was more into 'gameing' and 'time score' etc.

3 of us in the class and the Instructor shot some due to the small size.

My Buddy (Army Sniper, with several classes under his belt)
Nother guy who was a training junky also
And me.

They all had AR's with Aimpoints, and I had my AK's.

74 the first day, and during the 2nd I switched to the 47.

Set up identically, 'Kiber pass' guns with Aimpoints on Ultimaks.

They were running plate carriers and Drop legs, and I was running a Maxpidition shoulder bag (Jumbo IIRC) and a AIWB Glock 26 with big dots.

was SLIGHTLY slower on the reloads mostly, but I also re-snapped the buckle each time. (They took their retaining straps off.)

End of the day we were neck and neck, time and accuracy.

They were running overt, and I was running covert.
(Sometimes they were faster/little closser to the bull, and sometimes I was)

And I make NO claims to being some awesome shooter.

So Sorry, I throw that one out.

Now if we are taking fractions of a second... Yes, I'd probably give the break to the AR.

Any real world probability... Too close to call.

My point: Includes reloads.


As to the safety:
Not only are there extended safety's that solve that issue and are pretty much 'drop in'

It's unneeded.

like I ran my SAW... Hand's on the pistol grip the safety's off.

Hand comes off the pistol grip safety goes on.

 

[SpeedRacer]

Nomad, quit contradicting the internet with your tales of reality. You're ruining it for everyone.

On a side note, have you played with one of these yet?

http://www.bayoushooter.com/forums/showthread.php?63592-New-RS-AKM-Aimpoint-Mount

 

[Nomad.2nd]

Nomad, quit contradicting the internet with your tales of reality. You're ruining it for everyone.

On a side note, have you played with one of these yet?

http://www.bayoushooter.com/forums/showthread.php?63592-New-RS-AKM-Aimpoint-Mount

OOPS, SORRY!

Side note:

Nope, couple reasons:

1. I like the Ultimak
2. I like folders and all my guns to have the same set up
3. I've seen the rare AK jam (1:50,000 rounds by my observation) where SOMEHOW the spent 'brass' gets (SOMEHOW) on the left side of the bolt and jams up the gun. (happened to me 1x) and a simple popping off the topcover makes it fall out.

-Saw it happen to another guy, told him what to do... he was used to working the safety on and off (As you know, without the topcover the safety comes out.)
He finished the drill with no topcover or safety!

I want to be able to do that if necessary.

 

[SpeedRacer]

OOPS, SORRY!

Side note:

Nope, couple reasons:

1. I like the Ultimak
2. I like folders and all my guns to have the same set up
3. I've seen the rare AK jam (1:50,000 rounds by my observation) where SOMEHOW the spent 'brass' gets (SOMEHOW) on the left side of the bolt and jams up the gun. (happened to me 1x) and a simple popping off the topcover makes it fall out.

-Saw it happen to another guy, told him what to do... he was used to working the safety on and off (As you know, without the topcover the safety comes out.)
He finished the drill with no topcover or safety!

I want to be able to do that if necessary.

You do lose folding capability while it's mounted, but it is quick detach and does retain zero. Obviously doesn't help much if you want to carry/transport your rifle folded and ready to rock (which you do IIRC). You can still easily remove the topcover and do a complete field strip with the optic mounted.

You can't go wrong with the Ultimak, but I prefer the side mount because the rifle balances better, the optic sits closer to the eye, and you can still easily remove the gas tube for cleaning (especially important when shooting corrosive ammo).